Legislature(1997 - 1998)
11/05/1997 01:18 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
November 5, 1997
1:18 p.m.
Kenai, Alaska
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman
Representative Mark Hodgins
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ivan Ivan, Vice Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Gene Kubina
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Gary Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 149
"An Act relating to the management of salmon fisheries; and
providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
*HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 38
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska
relating to limited entry for sport fish guides and allied
professions.
- HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 149
SHORT TITLE: PREFER CONSUMPTIVE USE SALMON FISHERIES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOHRING, Masek, Mulder, Cowdery
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/19/97 399 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/19/97 399 (H) FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE
02/27/97 519 (H) COSPONSOR(S): COWDERY
04/28/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/28/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
04/30/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
04/30/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
05/05/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
05/05/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
05/07/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
05/07/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
09/12/97 (H) FSH AT 1:00 PM DILLINGHAM LIO
09/12/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
09/30/97 (H) FSH AT 1:00 PM MAT-SU
09/30/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
10/24/97 (H) FSH AT 1:00 PM KODIAK
10/24/97 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
11/05/97 (H) FSH AT 1:00 PM KENAI
BILL: HJR 38
SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISHING GUIDE LIMITED ENTRY
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN, Hodgins
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/30/97 1408 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
04/30/97 1408 (H) FSH, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
11/05/97 (H) FSH AT 1:00 PM KENAI
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE VICTOR KOHRING
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 421
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2186
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 149.
RUTH JOHNSON
P.O. Box 27
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568
Telephone: (907) 262-5772
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
IRV CARLISLE
P.O. Box 2349
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-5389
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DALE BONDURANT
HC 1, Box 1197
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-0818
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149.
BYRON BONDURANT
HC 1, Box 1258
Soldotna, Alaska 99689
Telephone: (907) 262-0818
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149
and testified on HJR 38.
JIM RUSSELL, Commercial Fisherman
P.O. Box 118
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568
Telephone: (907) 262-5291
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DIANE DUNCAN, Commercial Fisherman
P.O. Box 533
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-6645
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
ROGER HARRIS
P.O. Box 7013
Nikiski, Alaska 99635
Telephone: (907) 776-8768
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
JOE HANES, Sport Fish Guide
P.O. Box 3132
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-6388
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149 and in support of
HJR 38.
JANET CLUCAS
HC 2, Box 960
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568
Telephone: (907) 567-3359
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
ROD BERG
266 Redwood Court
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-6064
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149 with
reservations.
MARK POWELL, Salmon Buyer
HC 1, Box 240
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 776-8006
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
LEON MARCINKOWSKI
P.O. Box 7428
Nikiski, Alaska 99635
Telephone: (907) 776-5552
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
BRENT JOHNSON, President
Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association
HC 2, Box 508
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568
Telephone: (907) 262-4763
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
KARL KIRCHER, Executive Director
Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association
34284 "K." Beach, Suite E
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-2492
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
PEGGY MOORE
HC 2, Box 714
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 283-5707
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
BOB TOLL
P.O. Box 96
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-7050
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 149.
LAWRENCE RORRISON, Commercial Fisherman
SR 2, Box 250
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-9888
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
COSMO MERCURIO, Commercial Fisherman
SR 2, Box 550
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-9888
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
JUDY JOHNSON, Setnet Fisherman
HCR 2, Box 508
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568
Telephone: (907) 262-4763
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
SAMANTHA MILLS
P.O. Box 1090
Sterling, Alaska 99672
Telephone: (907) 262-2900
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
KRIS NOROSZ, Representative
Icicle Seafoods
P.O. Box 1147
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Telephone: (907) 772-4294
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DREW SPARLIN, Commercial Fisherman
37010 Cannery Road
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-4095
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
ERIK HUEBSCH
P.O. Box 599
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-6189
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DAVID MARTIN
HC 2, BOX 860
Clam Gulch, Alaska 99586
Telephone: (907) 567-3306
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
LIZ CHASE, Member
Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association
Box 39
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-3233
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DAN VAN ZEE
325 Airport Way
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-7291
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149.
JOHN EFTA
P.O. Box 353
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-5899
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 149.
RAYMOND VINZANT, Sport Fisherman
P.O. Box 4523
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-3736
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 149.
THEO MATTHEWS, Executive Director
United Cook Inlet Drift Association
P.O. Box 389
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-3600
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
G. KENDALL, Commercial Fisherman
P.O. Box 2523
Soldotna, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 262-6130
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
PAUL SHADURA, Commercial Fisherman
and Tender Operator
P.O. Box 1632
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 283-5098
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
JEFF BEAUDOIN, Commercial Fisherman
P.O. Box 75
Kasilof, Alaska 99610
Telephone: (907) 262-3869
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DON JOHNSON
P.O. Box 876
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-7893
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149.
JIM EVENSON
P.O. Box 324
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 776-8060
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
SAM McDOWELL
336 East 23nd Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 272-6605
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 149.
LARRY VAN SKY, Construction Worker
and Commercial Fishermen
HC 1, Box 1330
Kenai, Alaska 99611
Telephone: (907) 776-8627
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 149.
DONNA SCHOUWEILER
HC 1, Box 161A
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Telephone: (907) 262-8462
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 149.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-31, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 1:14 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Austerman, Hodgins. Members
absent were Representatives Ogan, Ivan and Kubina.
HB 149 - PREFER CONSUMPTIVE USE SALMON FISHERIES
HJR 38 - SPORT FISHING GUIDE LIMITED ENTRY
Number 0057
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the committee would simultaneously
take testimony on HB 149 and HJR 38. He stated that HB 149 is, "An
Act relating to the management of salmon fisheries; and providing
for an effective date" and HJR 38 is, "Proposing an amendment to
the Constitution of the State of Alaska relating to limited entry
for sport fish guides and allied professions." He stated that
Representative Kohring would provide his sponsor statement on HB
149.
Number 0150
REPRESENTATIVE VICTOR KOHRING, Sponsor, stated that he represents
Wasilla and Peters Creek. He explained that HB 149 is to primarily
direct the Board of Fisheries to give the first priority, after the
escapement goals are met, to the consumptive user; which are the
sport fishermen and personal and subsistence user. He stated that
the bill is only applicable to Cook Inlet. He stated that there
are problems with the numbers of coho and red salmon in the Mat-Su
valley. The streams that are having problems are Montana Creek,
Fish Creek, Wasilla Creek and Cottonwood Creek. He stated that it
is reflective of the F.I.S.H (Fairness in Salmon Harvest)
Initiative. He stated that the Initiative was found
unconstitutional because the court felt the legislature, not the
public, should dictate legislation.
Number 0644
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that the goal of the legislation is
to provide the personal consumptive user group with a 5 percent
allocation of the statewide resource, which is just a small percent
of the resource. He stated that the intent is to get an equitable
share of the resource. He stated that if the bill were to pass, it
would be a benefit to everybody because it will protect the
resource.
Number 0842
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked Representative Hodgins, co-sponsor of HJR
38, to present the resolution. Chairman Austerman noted for the
record that Representative Gary Davis was in attendance.
Number 0845
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS, Co-Sponsor, stated that HJR 38 is
proposing to change the Constitution of the State of Alaska, by
adding a new section to read: "Section 19. Sport Fish Guide
Limited Entry. For purposes of resource conservation and to
prevent economic distress among sport fish guides and allied
professions, the state may, in all or part of the state, limit
entry into the sport fish guiding profession and closely allied
professions that for compensation directly assist sport fishermen
to take fish." He stated that if it passes the Alaska Department
of Fish and Game (ADF&G), they would have the ability to limit
sport fish guides.
Number 1040
RUTH JOHNSON said, "We do not want HB 149. It would put us out of
business." (Testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound quality
Ms. Johnson provided the committee with a written copy of this
statement.)
Number 1156
IRV CARLISLE stated that he was Secretary of Kenai-Soldotna Fish
and Game Advisory Committee, for 13 years and he was on the
Governor's Arbitration Committee to find middle ground on the
F.I.S.H. Initiative. He stated that he served a three year term on
the Board of Fisheries. He stated that he has never been a
commercial fisherman and his interest lies in sport fishing. He
stated that he has guided on the Kenai River for two seasons. He
stated that in 1959 the legislature appointed the Board of
Fisheries to decide on allocation issues. He stated that the
misconception is that people from Cook Inlet believe Cook Inlet has
the most important fisheries issues in the state of Alaska. He
stated that he has traveled to virtually every area of the state
listening to residents and every area, that has submitted a
proposal to the Board of Fisheries, feels that their issue is the
most important. He stated that the legislature is feeling the
pressure from large campaign donors but once the legislature starts
to allocate fish, they will be expected to decide on allocation
issues all over the state. He stated that being a member on the
Board of Fisheries is a full time job, as meetings are seven days
a week, for a three week period at a specific location with a week
off in between locations, for six months out of the year. He
stated that it will be a difficult decision for the legislature to
make on what allocation issues they are going to decide on and what
issues they are going to let the Board of Fisheries decide on. He
stated that there are more than 1,000 proposals that came to the
board, more than half being allocation issues. He stated that the
result of HB 149 or any other allocation legislation will put the
fisheries resources in the political arena where decisions are made
by a political criteria. The resource will lose in this scenario.
He stated that if the legislature is allocating fish there no
longer needs to be a Board of Fisheries. He urged the legislature
to make better use of their time and leave the allocation issues to
the Board of Fisheries.
Number 1957
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that his constituents have seen three
years of inaction by the Board of Fisheries and ADF&G. He asked
Mr. Carlisle what could be done to get more fish in the rivers. He
stated he would dispose of HB 149 if he could be assisted to get
more fish in their streams and rivers.
Number 2125
MR. CARLISLE replied that the first thing he would suggest is to
get more active in the process itself. He stated that naturally
the west side of Cook Inlet has never been a dynamic fishery as
compared to the east side. He stated that the West Side permits
were also cheaper than the east side permits. He stated that the
continued violations of people taking fish illegally has
contributed a great deal to condition of the present fishery. He
stated that some Cook Inlet permit holders believe that they should
make just as much money as a the permit holders that have paid a
much higher price for a permit that allows them to fish in a more
productive area. He stated that equal salaries and incomes can not
be delegated by the legislature. He stated that they certainly
have a sympathetic ear on the Board of Fisheries, regarding the
allocation issues in the Mat-Su Valley, because the Vice Chairman
of the Board of Fisheries wrote the F.I.S.H. Initiative. He stated
that there is no quick fix to this problem.
Number 2527
DALE BONDURANT stated that he is in support of the concept behind
HB 149. He believed that it is reflective of the certain
provisions and clauses of the Alaskan constitution. He stated that
equal access and opportunity are the fundamental rights related to
the use of the public trust resources. He stated that the bill
also complies with amendments of the U.S. Constitution. He
continued that limited entry makes commercial fishing a restricted
class of fishing with a limited number of participants and should
not have priority or preference of use. He stated that consumptive
uses makes up 1.5 percent of the statewide salmon harvest. He
stated that it is less than the one-third of the 5 percent cap that
is proposed by HB 149. He stated that any such cap is not
practical for this legislative act, because as the growth of the
population increases so should the percentage of the common
consumptive use. He stated that restriction on consumptive use
should only be restricted by the conservation and the sustained
yield mandate of the constitution.
Number 3106
MR. BONDURANT stated that there are more fish taken commercially by
nonresidents than by nonresident sport fishermen. He stated that
the common consumptive user owns the fish.
Number 3122
BYRON BONDURANT stated that he would not vote for a Representative
of his district if they do not affix their name to HB 149. He
stated that the bill reaffirms what is in the constitution. He
stated that commercial fishing is not an important or personal use,
it is the means of business to use the excess of a resource for
commercial gain. He stated that HB 149 recognizes personal use and
is a people's bill. He reaffirmed that he would not vote for
anyone who did not sign on to this bill. He stated that people
turn against government because most of the bills give special
interests to a small portion of the population. He stated that HB
149 is for all the people and he stated that he could not believe
that it might not leave the committee. He indicated that ADF&G is
a political group. He stated that there are a lot of bills passed
that go against the constitution and HJR 38 is one of them.
Number 3814
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that they are getting a very small
percentage of the resource, consequently it is not a threat to the
commercial fishing industry.
Number 3904
JIM RUSSELL, Commercial Fisherman, stated that he is against HB
149, it would put him and his family out of business and all his
income supports local businesses. (Mr. Russell's testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 4116
DIANE DUNCAN, Commercial Fisherman, stated that she is opposed to
HB 149 because of the effects it would have on her business, the
Kenai economy and the state of Alaska. She stated that commercial
fishing is a viable and historical industry of the Kenai Peninsula.
She explained that the rivers and the salmon runs can withstand the
commercial fishery because it has taken place for a long time. She
stated that if the fishery is continued to be managed biologically
it will continue to produce plenty of salmon for all Alaskans.
Number 4213
MS. DUNCAN stated that the growing tourism industry is putting more
pressure on the river systems. Overcrowding and degradation of the
habitat should be of concern. She explained that commercial
fishermen have had severe restrictions and fishing has been closed
for the months of May, June, most of August, September and October
to allow more opportunity to sport fishermen. She stated that
escapement goals have increased drastically. She explained that
there is a dipnet fishery that takes place below the sonar counters
so that the fish taken are not counted towards escapement goals.
There is a personal use fishery that takes place before the
commercial fishery begins, in an effort to give sport fishermen
more of an opportunity to catch fish. She stated that the problem
does not lie within the commercial industry because more and more
of the resource is taken away from commercial fishermen and given
to the sport industry.
Number 4325
MS. DUNCAN stated that the Kenai River can not supply all the
tourists with fish at the rate nonresident sport anglers are
increasing. She stated that a solution is needed and it should not
be at the expense of the local residents. She stated that the
fisheries need to be managed biologically to ensure the future of
Alaska for all Alaskans.
TAPE 97-31, SIDE B
Number 0335
ROGER HARRIS stated that he was against the F.I.S.H. Initiative and
can not believe that it could be brought up again. He stated that
he does not always agree with the Board of Fisheries' decisions but
it is the forum to decide allocation issues. He stated that he is
against HB 149.
Number 0423
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he wrote the bill and it was not
because of any special interest group that he is trying to cater to
or to seek votes. He stated that he wrote it from his heart with
the intent of trying to help people get more fish on their tables.
Number 0519
JOE HANES, Sport Fish Guide, stated that he was the former
President of the Kenai River Guides Association, and has been
guiding on the river for 19 years. He stated that not sure whether
or not this bill would be effective and is concerned on the effect
it will have on the commercial fishery in this area. He stated
that he has spent a lot of time in meetings, surveying the
situation. He stated that the coho salmon run has been
obliterated. He indicated that both sport and commercial fishermen
are going to suffer. He stated that the Kodiak king salmon
intercept has gone from 500 fish in 1985 to 40,000 fish as of this
year.
Number 0735
MR. HANES stated that when a sport fishery doubles in its harvest
there are proposals written to curb the catch and he questioned why
the same proposals are not done for the intercept fisheries in the
commercial industry. He stated that sports fishermen have curved
their harvests. He stated that all industries need to curb their
harvests because in a few years the commercial fisheries will
overfish themselves to extinction. He stated that everybody has a
right to harvest the fish. He stated that he does not support HB
149 and asked that the legislature help the fisheries by writing a
bill that would stop all sockeye salmon enhancement in Cook Inlet,
until there is a rebound in the stocks.
Number 1051
MR. HANES stated that he would like to limit guides but he would
have a problem with limiting halibut fishing guides because 93
percent of Alaskans access the halibut fishery through guides. He
stated he would be in favor of HJR 38 for certain areas in the
state even though it could affect his business.
Number 1207
JANET CLUCAS stated that she is against HB 149. She stated that it
is important to find out the real problem in order to find a
solution. She stated that everybody should be able to fish for
the resource. She reiterated the months that commercial fishermen
were not allowed to fish. (Most of Ms. Clucas' testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 1406
ROD BERG stated that the present system is not working. He stated
that when the fish in the Kenai River are counted accurately, it
will be shown that the escapement levels are not being met. He
stated that the sonar surveys are not accurate. He stated that he
supports HB 149, but he would rather see the Upper Cook Inlet
Management Plan changed. He stated that 5 percent is not a large
percentage of fish to ask for. He stated that commercial fishermen
are given loans and are treated like a special class of people.
Number 1815
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he agreed with him.
Number 1821
MARK POWELL, Salmon Buyer, stated the he buys fish from the setnet
fishermen. He stated that he is against HB 149. He stated that
Alaska's fishing area is larger then the entire coast line of the
United States. Pink salmon are harvested in vast amounts though
hatchery programs that sustain their commercial viability. To take
5 percent of 180 million fish harvested in the state is not fair.
He referred to Representative Kohring's statement that the Board of
Fisheries haven't supported the sport fishing interests. He stated
that the setnetters had a lot of their season taken away and it is
time to look at the guided fisheries impact on the river. He
stated that commercial fishermen have existed for many years before
problems existed, therefore it is not really accurate to say they
are the cause of the problem. He referred to the restrictions on
the drifters and the few days that they were allowed to fish. He
stated that through these closures the sport fishermen gained more
fish. He asked how the bill would work and stated that biological
needs and the management of the fish need to be put first. He
stated that commercial fishermen support the economy and asked what
would happen without the tax that the fishermen pay back to the
state.
Number 2623
LEON MARCINKOWSKI testified on HB 149. He stated that he has
participated in the Board of Fisheries and he believes that the
process is working. He asked Representative Kohring to really
examine the 5 percent, because if he did he would understand how
unfair it is. He stated that if Representative Kohring really had
written the bill from his heart he will realize the consequences of
the 5 percent. (Most of Mr. Marcinkowski's testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 3151
BRENT JOHNSON, President, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association,
stated that he is against HB 149. He stated that it appears that
5 percent is not a lot to ask for. He stated that the oil and gas
industry in Cook Inlet, compared to the statewide oil and gas
industry, is just a drop in the bucket. He stated that there are
not that many fish produced in Cook Inlet as compared to the
statewide number of fish. He stated that this bill can completely
dislocate Cook Inlet commercial fishermen.
Number 3399
MR. JOHNSON stated that if an industry relies on a carrying
capacity of a certain amount of the resource, there has to be a
limit to the people taking that resource. He stated that tourism
has become important recently, while commercial fishing has always
been occurring. He stated that there has to be a limit because the
resource cannot renew as fast as it is being used.
Number 3612
MR. JOHNSON stated that he has heard that the bill was written
because the Board of Fisheries is not doing their job. He asked if
Representative Kohring has ever been to a meeting regarding Cook
Inlet issues. Mr. Johnson stated that he has been to every Board
of Fisheries meeting regarding Cook Inlet issues. He stated that
both Governor Hickle and Governor Knowles, appointed most of the
members and they were both running on a "sport fish ticket". He
provided the committee with the background of the Board of
Fisheries members. Trefon Angasan, Bristol Bay Driftnet Fishermen
and Vice-President of the Bristol Bay Native Corporation; Dan
Coffey, Lawyer, wrote the F.I.S.H. Initiative; Ed Dersham, Salt
Water Sport Fishing Guide; Larry Engel, Biologist, ADF&G, Sport
Fish Division and former Lobbyist for the Mat-Su Valley; Grant
Miller, Southeast Seiner; Virgil Umphernour, Game and Sport Fish
processor and Fish Wheel Fisherman on the Yukon River; John White,
Dentist, and Kuskokwim Drift Fishermen. He stated that most are
sport fishermen, Virgil Umphernour and John White are both in favor
of no interception. He stated that Grant Miller is the only real
commercial fisherman on the board. He stated that in the past year
the Kenai setnet fishermen have lost one-quarter of their season.
He stated that the Board of Fisheries will probably put commercial
fishermen out of business in the long run, HB 149 will just do it
faster.
Number 4227
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he has been the Board of
Fisheries meetings and still maintained that the board is not
equipped to address the issues and the problems in the area.
Number 4332
KARL KIRCHER, Executive Director, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's
Association, stated that they have about 400 members. He stated
that the association opposes HB 149. He stated that other users
should not have a priority over the traditional commercial fishery.
He stated that in 1996, 136,000 sockeye salmon were caught by the
personal use fishery on the Kenai River. He stated that the sport
fishery has grown into another commercial fishery.
TAPE 97-32, SIDE A
Number 0004
MR. KIRCHER stated that the expansion of the sport fishing industry
or overcapitalization is creating a problem for the business
owners, so they are looking for more of the resource as the
solution. He stated that getting more of the resource will not
solve the problem. He referred to graphs that he has made and
stated that the commercial fishermen have a viable and healthy
industry as prices and harvest are increasing.
Number 0306
MR. KIRCHER stated that sport fishermen in Cook Inlet harvest 82
percent of king salmon, 25 percent of the coho salmon and 5 percent
of the sockeye salmon. He stated that asking for 5 percent is
extremely misleading. He stated that HB 149 is oversimplifying the
users of the fisheries and is detrimental to the commercial
fisheries.
Number 0506
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING asked Mr. Kircher why he felt it was right
that the commercial users have priority over the other users.
Number 0524
MR. KIRCHER replied that he assumed Representative Kohring was
referring to the Upper Cook Inlet Salmon Management Plan that gives
the commercial fishing industry a priority from July 1 to August
15. He stated that during the sport fish priority there is no
commercial fishing allowed, however during the commercial fishing
priority all other users are allowed to fish.
Number 0712
PEGGY MOORE stated that she is opposed to HB 149. She referred to
the sponsor statement and stated that the bill is not really about
the common consumptive user. She stated that Representative
Kohring has stated that sport fishing restrictions are detrimental
to Southeast Alaska's economy and that the Mat-Su Borough's economy
is suffering as a result of the recent sport fish closures and
restrictions. She stated that she thought the bill was addressing
the common consumptive use and not tourism dollars. She stated
that the statutes define sport fishing as the taking of fish
resources for personal use. Personal use fishing is defined as the
taking of fish resources by Alaskan residents. She stated that the
definition of an industry is any large scale business activity.
She stated that she does not understand how lodge owners and sport
guides can qualify as common consumptive users. She stated that by
making a profit from the resource disqualifies one as a common
consumptive user.
Number 1017
MS. MOORE referred to the purpose statement of HB 149, "sport
fisheries shall receive a preference to take a portion of the
harvestable surplus of salmon stocks in the area." She stated that
it does not say throughout the whole state. She stated that the
priority of 5 percent of the entire statewide stocks is going to be
taken from a small fishing area without distinguishing between
stocks or species. She stated that the 5 percent would actually
exceed the entire return of all species to the Cook Inlet area and
as a result limit all commercial fishing along these stocks'
migration routes. She stated that HB 149 would have a negative
effect on the economy and the community. She reiterated that she
is opposed to HB 149 and did not want to have her livelihood taken
away. (Portions of Ms. Moore's testimony was indiscernible due to
poor sound quality.)
Number 1441
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he would like to modify his
sponsor statement to emphasize more the issue of the personal
consumptive user that he is trying to benefit. He stated that he
does not deny the sport fishing industry has wonderful economic
benefits to the Mat-Su Borough.
Number 1540
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called for a brief at-ease.
Number 1738
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER (RECORDING STARTED IN THE MIDDLE OF
TESTIMONY) stated that this issue is complicated and it should not
be decided in the political arena. She stated that allocation
issues need to be done by a group that has the time to research the
issue.
Number 2114
BOB TOLL stated that the commercial fishing industry in the Kenai
Peninsula is critical to the economy. He referred to a report
prepared to by the Kenai Peninsula Borough Economic Development
Districts. He referred to the result of the report. He asked if
HB 149 was really to help the resource or if it is to help an
overexpanded fishery. (Most of Mr. Toll's testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 2540
LAWRENCE RORRISON, Commercial Fisherman, stated that the majority
of his income is from commercial fishing and HB 149 would hurt his
business. He referred to the problem of the lack of angler success
due to overcrowding and stated that it is not going to be fixed by
HB 149. He stated that two years ago he was able to catch fish in
a small creek in the Mat-Su. He stated that most commercial
fishermen, in addition to fishing participate in other professions.
He stated that a lot of jobs result from commercial fishing and
they have an economic impact on a variety of businesses. He stated
that there has already been restrictions on commercial fishing
industry in Cook Inlet to accommodate the sport fishermen. He
asked why commercial fishermen are not included as a common
consumptive user. (Portions of Mr. Rorrison's testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 3605
COSMO MERCURIO, Commercial Fisherman, stated that he is adamantly
against HB 149. He stated that it does not help the resource that
he and his community depends on. He stated that more fish will not
do anyone any good.
Number 3648
JUDY JOHNSON, Setnet Fisherman, stated that she is against HB 149.
She stated that she would like to keep this issue with the Board of
Fisheries. She stated that the legislature could help by
allocating more funds to ADF&G. She stated that the biology
department is being cut drastically at a time when there needs to
be more information on the resource so Alaska does not lose it.
Number 3920
SAMANTHA MILLS stated that she is against HB 149.
Number 3937
KRIS NOROSZ, Representative, Icicle Seafoods, stated that they
process salmon, crab, halibut, black cod and herring. She stated
that there are plants in Seward, Homer and Petersburg. She stated
that if HB 149 were adopted, it would be highly disruptive to
Alaska's commercial salmon industry. She stated that its impact
would be felt by fishermen; processing workers; supporting
industries, such as fuel distributors, insurance brokers and
grocery stores; and the state of Alaska. Ms. Norosz stated that
although the bill was meant to target South Central Alaska, it will
also impact Southeast Alaska. Southeast Alaska meets the 500,000-
angler-day threshold. She stated that with the increase in road
access slated for Prince William Sound, this area will soon meet
the criteria as well.
Number 4136
MS. NOROSZ stated that members of the public who purchase salmon
species would also lose access to these wild fish. She stated that
most Alaskans enjoy eating these species, but they may not have the
ability to harvest their own. Commercial fishermen and salmon
processors provide fish for these consumers. She continued that
the statewide catch of king and coho salmon is less then 5 percent
of the total statewide salmon harvest. The commercial fleet could
lose all access to these very important species. Ms. Norosz stated
that the bill would allow any commercial salmon fishery that
harvested even a small portion of fish destined for the designated
common consumptive use areas to be closed until the priority users
get all they want. She continued that closing areas along salmon
migratory paths to commercial fishermen until sport, subsistence
and personal users get all they want will result in a substantial
delay in harvest for commercial fishermen. This will affect the
quality of the fish commercially harvested, which is of most
importance in salmon marketing. She stated that with the massive
quantity of farmed salmon on the market today, the only way wild
salmon competes is by being of the highest quality possible. She
stated that Icicle Seafoods is against HB 149.
Number 4410
DREW SPARLIN, Commercial Fisherman, stated that he is against HB
149. He stated that the most important factor is the resource and
it has to be managed biological without political pressures. He
stated that the legislature should not get involved in the micro-
management of the fish resources. He stated that he has commercial
fished for 30 years. He stated that the more pressure that is put
on the system, through tourism and adding fish, the faster the
destruction of the resource will occur. He indicated that poor
management is what killed the resource in the Lower 48.
TAPE 97-32, SIDE B
Number 0001
MR. SPARLIN stated decisions should be made based on the biological
information. He stated that a member of the Board of Fisheries
should not be appointed if they have a set agenda.
Number 0047
ERIK HUEBSCH stated that he is against HB 149. He stated that the
attempt by the legislature to micro-manage fishery resources is
short sided and ill informed. He stated that the Kenai Peninsula
has a diverse economy, and commercial fishing has been the corner
stone of that economy. He stated that HB 149 would ruin the
economy of the Kenai Peninsula in order to benefit the Mat-Su
Borough. He stated that the Mat-Su borough is the fastest growing
area in the state. He stated that residents need to take more
responsibility of their actions because their lifestyles are
affecting the resource. He stated that the legislature should
spend their time trying to allocate money to ADF&G rather than
trying to allocate fish.
Number 0318
DAVID MARTIN stated that he has been involved with the Board of
Fisheries. He stated that 6,000 people are involved in the Cook
Inlet salmon fisheries for all or part of their livelihood. He
stated that HB 149 would eliminate all of these jobs and fuel the
rapidly growing commercial sport fish industry. He stated that the
bill is not managing the resource on a sustained yield basis. He
stated that it is hypocritical for Representative Kohring to state
that HB 149 is not in opposition to the commercial fishing
industry. He stated that allocating fish is not the responsibility
of the legislature, it is the function of the Board of Fisheries.
He explained the proposal process of the board. He stated that
they get their information from user groups, advisory committees
and biologists. He stated that, hopefully, fisheries regulation
will be implemented with the best interest in mind of maintaining
the habitat. He stated that HB 149 will fracture the current
system of management. He stated that ADF&G needs sufficient funds
to manage the fishery and enforce the laws. He stressed that
habitat should be the issue.
Number 0853
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he took offense to being called
hypocritical. He stated that he is trying to help his constituents
and enhance their economy. He stated that he does not have an
ulterior motive. He stated that he hopes that everyone can work
together to amend the bill so that it is acceptable to both sides.
He stated that he is being absolutely truthful when he says that
the does not want to hurt the commercial fishing industry, he is
trying to help the people in the Mat-Su.
Number 1015
MR. MARTIN explained that he stated Representative Kohring's
comment was hypocritical. He stated that if one does the math
regarding the 5 percent allocation one can see that there will not
be any commercial fishing in Cook Inlet, however in Representative
Kohring's sponsor statement, he stated that the bill will not
affect commercial fishing. Mr. Martin stated, that statement is
hypocritical (spectators applause).
Number 1113
LIZ CHASE, Member, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association, stated
that she is against HB 149. She stated that the commercial fishing
industry has been regulated to the point of "(indisc.)". She
stated that she supports a diverse economy. She stated that the
wealth of Alaska is in its natural renewable resources. She stated
that the resource should be for Alaskans and HB 149 is a step back
in history because it is giving the resource to outsiders. She
stated that the legislature should look for other ways to make
tourists happy rather then by guaranteeing them fish. (Portions of
Ms. Chase's testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 1350
DAN VAN ZEE, stated that he is in favor of HB 149. Sport fishing
is a major component of the economy in the Kenai peninsula. He
stated that the recorded coho salmon catch on July 20, 1997 was
20,000 fish and on August 4, the reported catch was 130,000 fish.
He stated that during the commercial fishing time, sport fishing
was cut off and it affected businesses. He stated that the
argument over the allocation affects all the businesses in the
area. (Most of Mr. Van Zee's testimony was indiscernible due to
poor sound quality and piano playing.)
Number 1932
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that the committee is trying to find a
balance between the commercial fishing industry and the tourism
industry. He stated that the legislature does have the authority
to delegate power to the Board of Fisheries to make those
decisions.
Number 2002
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated how refreshing it was to hear someone
testify in favor of the bill after 22 people in a row stated their
opposition.
Number 2000
JOHN EFTA read a letter from the Chairman of the Kenai/Soldotna
Fish and Game Advisory Committee that stated: The advisory board
does not support management of the fish and game resources by the
legislature or at the ballot box. The current process has elevated
the state of Alaska to a position envied by other states. It has
brought Alaska's resources back to current levels after poor
management, that nearly destroyed the fisheries resources. The
legislature should be more aggressive in funding and supporting
ADF&G. The tool that is missing is a limitation on the expanding
sport guide industry. If nothing is done there, Alaska's fisheries
resource will wind up like the ones on the Pacific Coast.
Number 2251
RAYMOND VINZANT, Sport Fisherman, stated that he caught absolutely
no king, coho or sockeye salmon this season. He stated that fish
are not a natural renewable resource. He said, "They are taking
fish. They are raising them in hatcheries. They are putting on
federal land, lakes like Hidden Lake. They are stocking it. They
are killing off the natural wild fish." He stated that hatchery
fish are not native Alaskan fish. He stated that if Alaskans do
not do something then the federal government will take over the
fisheries. He stated that some parts of HB 149 need to be revised
but he his in favor of the bill. He stated that all groups need to
work together instead of saying that they don't like HB 149. He
stated that he did not like HB 149 but if it could be modified it
can be brought to a good conclusion for everybody.
Number 2610
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that is one reason why the committee is
traveling around the state, to hear testimony from everyone, in
order to come up with an answer.
Number 2614
THEO MATTHEWS, Executive Director, United Cook Inlet Drift
Association, stated that he has a drift permit. He stated that
Representative Kohring does have a problem but HB 149 does not even
begin to address the issue. He stated that HB 149 can put
commercial fishermen out of business. He stated that commercial
fishermen are common users and are protected by the constitution.
He stated the fact that there is a commercial fishery on a stock
does not demand that there be a sport fishery on that stock and
vise versa. He listed the resolutions from the Mat-Su area that
opposed the F.I.S.H. Initiative. He stated that there is a myth
that a sport caught fish is more valuable. He stated that the
Board of Fisheries and ADF&G can not sustain the fisheries without
adequate funding from the legislature and support from other
departments. (Portions of Mr. Matthews testimony was indiscernible
due to poor sound quality).
Number 3300
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING thanked him for recognizing that there was
a problem in the Mat-Su area. He stated that he is working on
different wording for the 5 percent allocation because it is
unclear at present and it might result in just taking that verbiage
out of the bill.
Number 3444
MR. MATTHEWS stated that all user groups need to work together.
Number 3455
G. KENDALL, Commercial Fisherman, stated that she is against HB
149. She stated that the rivers will not be able to handle more
fishermen. She stated this bill would end commercial fishing and
eventually, the sport guide businesses because it will destroy the
habitat. She stated that too much politics managing the runs are
destructive to the resource and does not work. She stated that
she has been commercial fishing for 23 years. She stated that Cook
Inlet does not get enough fish to support a 5 percent allocation
quota. She stated that HB 149 puts at risk many industries and
jeopardizes the commercial industry, which is the largest private
sector employer in the state. (Portions of Ms. Kendall's testimony
was indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 4037
PAUL SHADURA, Commercial Fisherman and Tender Operator, stated that
Section 1, of the bill states, "This Act provides that in an area
of intense common consumptive use fishing activity, after
maintenance for salmon stocks at sustained yield levels ..." He
asked what the definition of sustained yield was and stated that at
a Board of Fisheries meeting there was a great discussion on what
sustained yield actually meant. He interpreted the bill to mean a
minimum sustained yield policy and he did not think that any user
group would agree with a minimum sustained yield policy.
Number 4244
MR. SHADURA read a statement by Paul Krasnowsky, sport fish
biologist, that was presented to the Board of Fisheries: "Three
hatcheries presently operate in Upper Cook Inlet. All are run by
the Cook Inlet Aquaculture Corporation, although two were
originally built and operated by ADF&G. Over the years a variety
of production programs and species have been dealt with at these
hatcheries. Today, most of the enhancement effort is focused on
production of sockeye salmon. Returns of hatchery fish have not
been of a magnitude to influence the management strategies that
were developed for natural stocks."
Number 4348
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that the definition of sustained
yield would be, to provide sufficient escapement to sustain the
resource for everybody's benefit. He stated that the exact number
would be up to ADF&G.
Number 4505
MR. SHADURA said, "You only need a certain amount of fish to keep
coming back and if you put too many fish in a system and you don't
change your programs of habitat protection, like in the Mat-Su
area, then there will be just a minimum sustained yield goal." He
stated that with the 5 percent allocation, there isn't any fish
returning to the Mat-Su, therefore the district would be shut down.
He stated that he has a problem with the percentages and the lack
of definitions for salmon returns in the bill.
Number 4622
JEFF BEAUDOIN, Commercial Fisherman (TAPE CHANGE)
TAPE 97-33, SIDE A
Number 0038
MR. BEAUDOIN stated that he has concerns regarding the salmon
industry on the Kenai River. He stated that it is a nonresident
versus resident sport fishing issue. He indicated that this would
be giving priority to nonresidents. He stated that he is against
HB 149 because the consumptive users have already been accommodated
by the Board of Fisheries. He stated that in 1995, the personal
use fishery had 85,699 sockeye salmon harvested by 5,360 Alaskan
residents in the Kasilof and Kenai River. In 1996, the personal
use fishery harvested upwards of 136,043 sockeye by 8,888 Alaskan
residents. He indicated that the personal use fisheries have taken
precedence over commercial fisheries, as certain personal use
fisheries occur prior to the commercial openings. He stated that
he recognized the viability of the sport fish industry.
Number 0539
MR. BEAUDOIN stated that the bill is in opposition to the
commercial fishing industry because it takes away Cook Inlet
"(indisc.)" and it affects his livelihood. He stated that the Mat-
Su problem should remain in the Mat-Su, instead HB 149 would affect
regional areas statewide in regards to allocation. (Portions of Mr.
Beaudoin's testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound quality).
Number 0638
DON JOHNSON stated that he has made money off of both the
commercial and sport fishing industry. He stated that the open
public fishery that pre-existed the commercial fishery has been
absorbed by the commercial fishery. He stated that the commercial
fishery takes over 90 percent of the resource and HB 149 is a
result of this. He stated that the resource historically belonged
to the public and they would like it back. He stated that the
"phenomena" that the commercial fishery created has resulted in the
subsistence, sport fishing, personal use problems. He stated that
HB 149 is the alternative, although he stated he would like to
rewrite the bill, it is still better than what exists now. He
stated that historically Cook Inlet had a lot of wild stocks but
the normal sustained yield has become a manipulated commodity. A
lot of people felt that they would be able to get rich because they
could manipulate the ratio of fish stocks in Cook Inlet. He stated
that the sockeye salmon species has been expanded way beyond
anything else and the results are starting to be felt due to
mismanagement. He stated that it does not make any sense to
enhance one species until it is completely out of control. He
stated that sockeye salmon is on a sustained yield plan but the
other species are not, which will result in a deteriorating cycle.
He stated that HB 149 should be passed.
Number 1746
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING stated that he failed to mention earlier
that 28,000 people did sign the F.I.S.H Initiative which
underscores the fact that there are a lot of people that feel there
is a problem.
Number 1825
JIM EVENSON stated that he is dead set against the bill and does
not see a reason for it. He stated that the commercial fishery has
never tried to take fish away or diminish the sport fishery, it has
always been the other way around. He stated that it was after
statehood that there was good management. He stated that the
alliance between sport fishing and tourism scares him and it needs
to be monitored. He stated the citizens of this area, that he has
talked to, believe that HB 149 is ridiculous. There is not wide
spread support for HB 149 (spectators applauded). (Most of Mr.
Evenson's testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 2123
SAM McDOWELL stated that he supports HB 149, however he does not
support the 5 percent allocation. He referred to commercial
harvest of sockeye salmon and the sport fisheries' intentions of
escapement. He stated that commercial fishermen harvested more
sockeye salmon in Upper Cook Inlet in 1987 and in 1991 than the
previous 16 years before the Cook Inlet Salmon Management Plan was
passed. He stated that in 1951, the commercial fishery harvested
187,511 king salmon and in 1970 they harvested 8,465. He stated
that the commercial fishermen totally wiped out the king salmon
stocks in Ship Creek. He stated that biologists set up a
management plan of Upper Cook Inlet sockeye salmon to meet Kenai
and Kasilof escapement goals and made all other species and areas,
secondary. He stated that the records show the most productive
spawning areas are in the Northern District of Upper Cook Inlet.
He stated that there needs to be a mixed stock fishery from Kodiak
to the Northern District. He stated that the bill would allow
everyone to participate in personal consumptive fisheries but it
should be after optimum sustained yield is met. (Portions of Mr.
McDowell's testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 2718
LARRY VAN SKY, Construction Worker and Commercial Fishermen, stated
that he disagreed with the bill. He stated that it is the
legislators job to treat all citizens in the state the same. He
stated that HB 149 does not treat fishermen fairly. (Portions of
Mr. Van Sky's testimony was indiscernible due to poor sound
quality.)
Number 2904
DONNA SCHOUWEILER testified on HB 149. She stated that she was
raised to live off the land. (Ms. Schouweiler's testimony was
indiscernible due to poor sound quality.)
Number 3544
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN thanked everybody for attending. He stated that
there would be one more statewide hearing to take testimony and
that will occur in Sitka. He stated that during session the
committee will continue to take up HB 149 and then take statewide
testimony again to discuss any alternatives the committee may come
up with.
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS thanked everybody for attending. He stated
that he hoped everyone will be able to move forward towards a
solution. He stated that he does not see how HB 149 will assist
the Kenai Peninsula and the Cook Inlet area. He said, "I hate to
depict this as an industry verses industry type bill and that is
basically what it is." He stated that the changes will be sweeping
changes, as he stated that he could not accept anything in HB 149.
He stated that there are a lot of problems with the fisheries. He
suggested that the export of fish by nonresident sport fishermen be
limited. He stated that when he was in Budapest, a person told him
that he was able to pack out 1,900 pounds of fish from Southeast
Alaska. He stated that the solution will need the cooperation of
everyone, as there is a problem in the Mat-Su area. He stated that
he represents the Kenai-Nikiski district, Chairman Austerman
represents Kodiak, Representative Ivan Ivan represents lower
Kuskokwim, Representative Gene Kubina represents Valdez and
Representative Scott Ogan represents the Mat-Su Valley. He stated
that he hopes a solution can be worked out. He stated that the
scientific reasons for a low return of fish need to be looked at as
well. He stated that he would like to see more funds go towards
habitat protection.
Number 4054
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING thanked everybody for coming.
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN indicated that both bills would be held for
further discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 4140
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting at 4:52 p.m.
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